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Live for you, not your fico score. [Apr. 17th, 2008|01:12 pm]
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I've been arguing with people about debt recently, and it's a bit frustrating.

Some history for you, for context.

I got my first credit card when I was 17. I was $3000 in debt by the time I moved out of my parents house at age 20. At age 23, it was closer to $20k. At 25, it was $40k. I paid it all off in mid 2001 with a windfall. I then lost my job, sold my house and ran it back up to 12k.

At 29, it was back up to 30k.

During this time, I acquired a lot of stuff I've since thrown away, given away or sold. The debt paid for a pair of lawyers, a huge tax bill and a lot of stupid mistakes because I spent money before I earned it. I made a *lot* of mistakes.

During this time, my credit score was (and still is) amazing. I had access to well over $100k of credit, and could basically buy anything I could point my finger at.

About two years ago, I was driving down Interstate 95 to a friend's wedding and I heard Dave Ramsey yelling at people who made $30k a year driving $40k cars. I was wondering how anyone could be so dumb. And then another person called and was complaining about 30% interest on credit cards and how overwhelmed they felt. Haha jerk, I said!

Then I went home and tallied up all my debt. I was $22k in debt with credit cards, and $20k in auto debt with a brand new car in my driveway. A third of my net income was going to pay debt. And because I just landed a hot new job, I had a brand new TV in my living room. I hadn't even gotten my first paycheck yet.

I was the people I was making fun of right before one single thing blew down their financial straw home. I was three missed payments away from having 30% interest rates - reading the Terms and Conditions on my 3.99% fixed rate card, I saw how they could raise my rates if there was a problem with another debtor (including mistakes).

I saw the light, and began paying everything off at a furious pace. I returned that new TV. I paid over $1500 a month towards debt. I sold a bunch of stuff, and in 10 months had it totally paid off. When I sold my car last month, I removed the only monthly debt left. I have a saving account with more money in it than I've ever had at once, and it continues to grow. Because of the lack of debt, I've been less tied down to jobs I hate - I could take risks I would otherwise not be able to handle if they went poorly. This has led me to my job in Boston (via a few other companies) where I make about double what I made when I had this initial shock.

The arguments I've been having with people come from the question "How can I improve my credit score?" Invariably, some wiseacre come on and says to get a credit card and don't pay it in full every month. This is what got me in trouble. I listened to the people that were clever. I made the calculations and figured out all of the numbers. I was smarter than the banks, I thought.

I am not smarter than the people that sell things - my discipline is not as strong as the knowledge of advertisers and the peer pressure put on me to buy expensive shit and keep up with everyone else. The thing is, everyone else is broke. Most people I know don't have an emergency fund and are 1 paycheck away from needing to borrow money. When their credit runs out, they will be faced to ask for favors and live on sofas. I knew all of the rules about money - I knew the math, and I can explain what a beta coefficient is when we are talking about CDs vs Market Index funds. But I was flat broke.

Personal finance is not about the math, it is about the action. I was playing the arbitrage game on my credit cards and digging a financial hole one dinner out at a time - buying things I didn't need to impress people I didn't like. And justifying it by saying my credit is good.

Something I've discovered is that you don't actually need good credit to live, because if you live debt free, you don't often need to borrow money. There are exceptions to this, of course, I'll be getting a mortgage in about a year, but it will be for a much much smaller amount than I am able to qualify for, and my down payment will be enough that anyone with common sense will write me a loan. A manually underwritten mortgage with a reasonable monthly payment and 20% down will get you a mortgage, so long as you don't have a negative credit history. A negative credit history is *not* the same as no credit history - if you have none, a steady job, and the requisite down payment, you will be able to buy a home, I promise.

So I ask for you to start living for your future, and not your FICO score. Don't get wrapped up in the mess of credit cards, car payments and consumer debt. When you question this, think I'm full of crap, ask yourself what you would do differently if you had no monthly payments. If the answer is something other than "nothing", please please consider making it so you can do that thing.

What brought this on is that today, I checked my FICO score. It's averaged at 799.66 between the 3 credit bureaus. People say that closing credit cards and killing your debt is bad for your credit, however a score of 800 is something that people fall over themselves to lend cash.

My goal over the next year is to lower it by staying out of debt - to let things fall off - close open accounts, and get my name off as many credit card companies lists as I can. In the past 60 days, I've paid off a car note, closed 3 credit card accounts (zero balances, just sitting there) and had my credit checked at least 5 times by apartments, employers, and banks. My score only seems to be rising. When I canceled some of my cards, the "save" department actually told me my credit score may go down as a motivator to not only keep the account open, but to use it. They know the game better than the other players - and the only to truly win is to not play (thank you WOPR.)

Some idiocy I see on the report that I'd like to share with you, and a reason to not trust the reports:

In the "what's hurting you" category at TransUnion:

"You have not established a long revolving credit history."

Oh, really? Then you say this, "Your first revolving account was opened 13 Years, 1 Month ago."

Huh - 13 years on a 31 year old seems pretty long to me. And this is taking away from my score.

Wait - on the other side - it says what's helping me:

"You have an established credit history. Your oldest account was opened 13 Years, 1 Month ago."

FICO scores are computed by credit reporting agencies, who are primarily funded by banks and lenders. Their mission is to protect themselves from deadbeats and to find people who they can lend money to and will be able to pay it back. Part of that equation is to find people to borrow money from them - and if they can make you think you need it to keep your credit score healthy, it works for them in both ways.

Don't live for your FICO score, live to do what's right. Pay back money you borrow and make your debts as small as possible to the least evil people you can. When you borrow money from someone, it makes you their slave. Don't do it.

(PS your car drives better when it is paid for)
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: [info]shadow27
2008-04-17 06:36 pm (UTC)

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The way I learned to have a good credit score was to get a credit card, use it, pay it off, then stop using it.
[User Picture]From: [info]rosered2318
2008-04-17 07:09 pm (UTC)

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Ha ha! I see you are whistling my tune now.

The only actual debt I am in is my student loans. Of which my payments are $85.00 a month. I haven't had any other accrued debt in...3 years? I think? Maybe four. I probably don't have as much saved as you, but I was able to live without a paycheck for 3 months a couple years ago and still pay rent, buy food, and go out on occasion. My bank account still hasn't completely recovered, but I don't feel like I am ever up shit creek. Honestly, credit cards scare me. The thought of spending money you haven't earned yet...it kind of boggles my mind. It's not there, so how can you spend it?

I am a big believer in the no debt life. You save until you can purchase what you want and if it is something really big like tuition or a home, you take out a loan. Your interest rate may not be as good as someone with a large credit history, but having 3 debts to settle per month is a lot easier than having 8.
[User Picture]From: [info]transentient
2008-04-17 07:46 pm (UTC)

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I agree with you 100% on the credit cards.

I don't think saving up 20% for a down payment on a house is the right thing to do. Even if you are lucky enough to not need a lot of space and live somewhere cheap, it is still a lot of money to save up and takes time. During that time you are paying rent, which I think is the second-worst type of debt, because it is seriously just money down the hole. Each month, all that rent money you paid last month is completely gone from your universe.

With a car payment, there is at least a good possibility that you can recover some of the investment through a sale.

I think for first-time buyers something around 10% is probably a sweet spot for mortgage down-payment, assuming you can get a federally-backed non-mortgage-insurance loan.
[User Picture]From: [info]pooplord
2008-04-17 08:18 pm (UTC)

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Funny, we were trying to see how soon we can get a mortgage, intending to put money down but just wanting to check how much we'd need, etc., etc. Apparently all they care about is that your debt to income ratio is lower than 33%, or some such. They started freaking out (positively) upon learning that our only monthly payment is a < $200/mo. car loan. We were considering payint that loan off, paying my [library school which I didn't come close to finishing but that is a story for another time] student loan, for which I don't have monthly payments yet but which is accruing interest... and the mortgage broker at USAA said NO WAY. It's less than $15k in debt total right no, no CC debt. If we saved pretty moderately, we'd have both paid off by the end of this year. We figured it was worth a shot. But we need to save up money for a DP first, apparently, so we're going to keep that debt and pay it off once we get a house, because we are jazzed on getting a house late next spring/early next summer (around when our lease is up, with 10% down -- we wish it were more, oh well).
[User Picture]From: [info]matrushkaka
2008-04-18 02:15 am (UTC)

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thanks for writing this.
[User Picture]From: [info]sbk
2008-04-18 02:45 am (UTC)

suddenly i'm reminded...

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...of the first time Tyler and I got into a fight.

you're not your job . you're not how much money you have in the bank . you're not the car you drive . you're not the contents of your wallet . you're not your fucking khakis . you're the all singing all dancing crap of the world